“We Over Me”: How much work does my partnership require?

Hey Mamas!

Taking care of ourselves and keeping up with our wellness as mothers is so important, and a part of that process is checking in on our relationships and partnerships too. This interview features Erica St. Bernard, LCMFT and passionate woman who is passionate about supporting women of color through their mental health and healthy partnerships.

 Erica: I am Erica St. Bernard, Licensed Clinical Marriage and Family Therapist licensed in the state of Maryland, originally practicing in the buoy area, but now practicing virtually throughout the state. I provide couples counseling for pre-engagement premarital counseling, and for those who are established in their marriage. I really just want to support couples, as they seek to be well to live well and love well. And so that's kind of the push and the focus behind Your lifes Well, which is the name of my business. I work with women of color always, always, always. I get excited to work with women of color as they are preparing for marriage and or just preparing to live well, because I certainly think living well is something that runs a thread through the course of our entire lives, whether we get coupled in parent or not. But just wanting to inspire wellness, for women of color and families of color. And certainly, from that relationship so that we realized we have the skills and the talents and the wherewithal to love well, and to love for a very long time.

Dr. Amber: I do feel like it's so important to make space for that, because I think sometimes we assume that relationships just come naturally, or that when you make the decision to have a long term relationship with someone, or partnership or get married that you know all will be well. But that's just not the case. So I really wanted to have you talk about your work. One thing that I noticed, which is something that I want to work on in terms of the work for Balance Working Mama, is that we focus so much on the woman, the mom, in herself and her healing her wellness. And a lot of the moms have kind of said ‘Well, what if I want to work on my relationship with my partner?’ And I'm so glad that they said that because it challenged me to think about how I can make more spaces and opportunities for us to really be thinking about this, in addition to our own wellness, and you were the perfect person to do it. You were on my radar, because I know you just wrote a book all about this stuff. It's called We Over Me; Principles for Marital Partnership. So I guess I'll start with asking you what inspired you to write that book?

 Erica: First, I have to say my husband is a self-published author. So he thinks every black person has to write something and get it published. He was pushing me to write a book. And I was like, Yeah… but about what I don't know. But what I noticed was that no matter where my clients were coming from in terms of couple shifts, whether they were newly married or had been married for 20 plus years, or deciding to get married, the same things, the same principles kept coming up in session. So I kept talking to couples about the need to shift from maintenance mindset to a we mindset, and to really get to this space where we could think about how my decisions impact us. From a we orientation. So it was really just seeing that as a rhythm and a pattern and wanting to show up for couples in that way. It's provided them with a resource again, we can do couples work in session, but when you go home, you need a place to refresh your thoughts and to refresh what we talked about or to work it out. I tried to create a book that is informative but is also a safe space for journaling too. I left some journaling prompts and some questions for you to ponder and reflect upon individually but also with your partner in an effort to assist with the conversations about how we move to that space or that mind shift that then follows our action as well. The other pieces that I noticed, is that so many of the relationship books that are out are not written by people of color, and even those that are, are written by black men. And I love a black man. Indeed I do! I'm married to one and I have brothers, but I don't think it's their place to speak to black women about how to love well. I wanted to be a voice for black women, as a black woman to say ‘These are some of the things that you might not consider,’ as we're pondering what it means to be partnered in a healthy love relationships and how we can show up. And so again, back to my whole theme and concept of wanting to be a voice, about how to live well, and how to love well, as a woman of color.

Dr. Amber: I feel like that is so needed, and I'm so glad you got that push from your husband to write it, because you know so much about this, you have such a wealth of knowledge. And I do have the book. So for any mom listening today, if anything that Erica says inspires you, or you want to dig deeper, definitely get the book. I want to talk about the topic of partnership and healthy relationships when it comes to mothers, because as you know, I work with moms. And I wanted to ask you what you think are the three biggest challenges you see mamas or mothers face when it comes to their partnerships? 

Erica: I think one of the first ones is like that Superwoman Superman complex, where it is a must to do everything. Our models as moms have not always been a good balance. I'm sure you've talked to moms about the balance of priority of our wellness and our relationship. So often, we are trying to do everything. We're going to be an amazing mom, we're going to be an amazing cook, we're going to be an amazing housekeeper, we're going to be an amazing partner, we're going to be an amazing career woman. And we can do all those things. I'm not suggesting that it’s impossible, but we can't do all of those things at the very same time. So a need to prioritize in this space, in this time, like in that first few weeks postpartum, you're not going to have to do a whole lot more than heal and take care of this little person. So I think that's a part of it, the pressure we put on ourselves. Again, with that Superwoman complex, that is really debilitating for some of us, because we feel like we're failing, but we're failing all because the bar has been set extremely high. And for no reason! I don't think anybody is expecting - and if they are, please, please tell them to go sit down somewhere - if they're expecting to be able to run on full cylinders, in the very early parenting experience then that’s wrong. Because we're sleep deprived, and we are fatigued at a level that we've not known before, and we're trying to still connect with our partners, still trying to learn this baby and what he or she needs from us. We're also trying to adjust to this new mom body that is not like the body we knew before. So all of those things are happening in the midst of trying to navigate these things. I think a remedy to that is to ask for help. 

And that's another thing for us that is hard. Because we've not really seen women asked for help. We've not seen models of it. Our moms and maybe Auntie's and whoever else that came before us, it didn't really model what it means to be a strong woman, be a courageous woman, being a career woman who also received support from other people. Those other people could be partners, or it could be girlfriends, it could be neighbors, it could be people within our squad, or our tribe, or our crew, whatever we call our friends, we could really lean into those relationships in a way that would offer support where we might barter services. You cook meals for me this weekend, I got you next week. So really figuring that out. I think the other thing about asking for help that is such a stickler is asking for help, even when it won't be done our way. When it comes to therapy with the couples, it’s like yeah, you asked me to do the laundry, and because I don't fold the baby's clothes the way you do, you say I didn't do it right. So what happens is one, we feel like we won't ask for help, because it's not done my way. But the other message it says is that I don't need your help, when that's not true. The truth is that we do need our partners help. The truth is that our kids need to see both of us equally sharing the work of family life. It shouldn't just be that mommy does these things, or dad does these things, but they see this symmetry at times where we share the work together because then it teaches them what to expect in terms of how partnership might look for them. It’s a great benefit in that way. 

The other thing, as you mentioned, is already prioritizing our wellness as women, but also communicating our needs to support that. Whether it’s dealing with the postpartum space immediately after labor and delivery and healing through that season and or just wanting to get back to ourselves. Wanting to get back to fitness, wanting to get back to work and whatever other things we might want to do, and needing to ask for support to make that happen. I don't think our dreams have to sit in a cave until our kids are 18. We can be intersectional to build that one. Sometimes women hold on to resentment about the fact that they didn't get to do their thing because they became a mom. And I think it's important for us to say to ourselves first on that. I still want to do more than just be a mom and I think that's phenomenal. You should be able to - you are able to. I think a part of it is to ask for the support you need from your partner. And then the last thing I would say is prioritizing the wellness of the relationship, and clearly communicating what you both want and need. It's not just saying, I want more date time, I want more cuddles and him saying I want more sex. But really, what does that look like? How do we make that happen? What do we need to do during the week, during the day, during whatever time, we have to make sure that we are planning time for couples check ins where we can have conversations about not just how was your day and how was work, but how are you? And how are we? Is there anything I can do to support you? Are there ways that you have supported me? And I'm appreciative because those messages go a very long way. They suggest that not only have you heard me, but you've listened, and you follow through and followed up on the things we agreed.

Dr. Amber: Yes, that was all so true. And there's definitely tons of overlap. What I see too with the challenges that some of the moms face when it comes to their relationships with their spouses and their partners, I think the one thing that I noticed moms have the toughest time on is the super woman conflicts like you talked about, and I think especially as black mothers and black women, it's just so loaded. But I noticed that it's like, bit by bit, it has to be chipped away until finally that woman or that mama is at a place where she's like, ‘You know what, I can have someone else do this for me. It actually is okay for me to just sit. I do need to allow this other person to do something their own way.’ And it is a process. It's a long process. I know for me, my experience has been watching super women all of my life. Growing up and thinking, whooooo, I can't do that! So this just might not be for me. I'm having to rework that in my head and tell myself that maybe there's another way. But also, it's so funny and true about asking for help, but allowing the person that you're seeking the help from to do it in their way. That is always such a hot topic, you know, especially in the Empower Wellness Program. That comes up a lot. I want him or her to do it this way, but then they don't do it right. So then I have to do it. And I always challenge and push back a little and ask them, ‘Okay, so why is that not the right way? And what's going on here? And is it possible that maybe what we're seeing is that you want it done one way but realistically, that can't be it.’

Something else you said kind of leads me to my next question. And, again, I think this is a blind spot for me in terms of the work I do with Mama's and I'm so glad that moms have kind of put it on my radar. Sometimes I noticed that the mamas come into the programs, or we connect because they realize they are completely over prioritizing the needs of their partners or the needs of the relationship. And then they get lost in the shuffle. And I see this a lot with moms prioritizing or over prioritizing the needs of the kids too. So therefore, there's no space for her. I'm really curious to hear from you on what advice you have for moms who feel like they have been over prioritizing the needs of their partners, or their relationship and then they they've no longer see themselves in the process?

Erica: I talk to clients about having a mirror moment where they sit with themselves literally in a mirror and check in with themself and say ‘How am I really doing?’ Then to wait for the answer to surface. I know that may not be an audible answer unless you talk to yourself like I do with the mirror sometimes. But you just kind of sit and you reflect on where I really am and thinking about what it is that you need in the moment. Something that I wrote in my notes was remember that you and your partner fell in love or like with each other. This was before babies. This was before so many of the other things that have become a part of our lives since connecting with this individual person, and so we really have to ask ourselves in very intentional way about nurturing who we are as women, not just as partners, not just as mom, but like What does Erica mean? What does Amber need. Not Amber the mom or Amber the wife, but what does Amber need? And really sitting with that question for a little bit and allowing yourself to tell you, because some people say I need a nap, and some will say I need a really good plate of food or I really need a girlfriend talk. I need a good pedicure or manicure. I need to speak with a therapist. I need to follow up with my doctor. I need to go to the dentist. I need to take care of me. What I've learned is that when I take time away from them, from her, from him, to just be with myself, there is such a breath of fresh air. Like I can fully exhale, I can fully breathe deeply and know that I'm as valuable. Not just because I'm a wife, not just because I'm a mom, but because I'm a human being. Because I'm a woman, because I'm a woman of color. Really slowing ourselves down and really giving ourselves what we need. Sometimes it's helpful to connect with friends who can honestly help us reflect on how we changed for the good and becoming a wife and mom.

And then we can ask where there's some disconnect from who we were pre mom or pre wife, and then in that space, being able to see if there's a way to tap back into that. So I tell clients to get curious about who you were before you became a wife and a mom. What things did you enjoy? What things did you do just for you? What things did you use to find fun? What things did you use to look forward to? And I know we’re in a pandemic, so things are a lot different, let's be honest. We can't do all the things we used to do. But we can find some creative ways to tap back into some of the essence of who we are. Before and even while we've been a wife and mom, the other thing we can do - and I think we have to be ready for this, I say this with caution - is to ask our partner, because they have opinions as well, they were there before we had this little person. Ask them, ‘Hey, I've been thinking about me and thinking about what I need. What do you remember about me before the kid?’ I know that's a deep question. And that's why you have to be ready, because they might have a loaded response. So you want to be in the right head and heart space to receive that. But really asking them that question because they know you and they see.

I had a really interesting conversation with my husband just a few nights ago, about me needing to take better care of me. And he was really helpful. He's a great mirror. And that's what I believe our partners are intended to be many times, but we don't always look at them that way. We don't always look to them for that kind of feedback. But they can be really thoughtful and helpful. And helping us to get back to ourselves, helping us to take better care of ourselves. So his final response to me was whatever we need to do to take care of you, I'm willing to support that. And I know that in the back of my mind, but oh my God I didn't want my heart to hear him. So I think that's the space of being vulnerable and saying, Hey, I'm not feeling so much like myself, and I want to take better care of me. And I think I need your help. So I'm going to talk first about what that would look like. And then these are the ways I might need you to support them.

“Do the work. It’s work, yes, but nothing in our lives that has any value to us doesn't require work. Yeah. You didn't become Dr. Amber Thornton without work. You didn't become Cedric's wife and C3’s mom without work. You didn't become an entrepreneur without work. The podcasts haven't been successful without work. Any of the businesses or jobs we’ve had, any of the ladders we've climbed corporately and professionally or any other way, they all require a level of investment, a level of intentionality and that's what marriage requires.”

Dr. Amber: That was so grounding. I loved hearing all of that and it honestly got me thinking that I need to go have a conversation with my husband.

Erica: They’re such a great resource, but I don't think we are mindful of it! They've seen us our best, they've seen us at our worst, they've seen us through the times and bad. But they can really be a great filter for helping us to reconnect with the woman they fell in love with, because we loved her too at one time. And maybe we still do, but we've just gotten caught up in the business of what life is as a mom and a career woman. So they can be really helpful with helping us get back to the ground, and kind of assess again

Dr. Amber: Of course. And you know, with all of those things, something that really stands out to me is just making some space for what you need. And it sounds like you gave a variety of ways, even if it's just kind of like doing some self-reflection, or using your partner or your spouse as that mirror or asking a friend how have I changed for the good and maybe not so good. You know, just kind of allowing that space to happen. And making room for it, I think is a really good first start. It just makes me think of the word intention. You know, I think as women and mothers, we are very intentional about so many things, but sometimes other things get lost in the shuffle, including ourselves. Yes, ourselves, we get lost in the shuffle. But then also sometimes our partnerships and relationships too. And it's hard to juggle and balance all of that. But I think you're already just helping us so much. I want to ask you, for anyone who gets the book - which hopefully everyone does - you do so well at highlighting the five principles you said that you've noticed that come up in your work with couples and with women. And so again, because we're talking to moms right now, I'm really curious to know from you, what principle do you think would really stand out or resonate the most with the working moms who might be listening today?

Erica: Great question. I think the second principle, health precedes wholeness. I think that one because it speaks to them and the subtopics are who are you, what's in your bag, clear and communicated expectations, and then requirements or demands of healthy relationships. I think about it in terms of, as we just said, we get so caught up in the realm of being a mom, being a wife, being a career woman, that we lose sight of the fact that each of those is a separate entity of who we are. And they each need their own kind of individual attention. And who has time for that? We all have to make the time, we have to make the space, we have to slow ourselves down. And I think that principle because it speaks to not just the health of the relationship, but the health of the person. And then it speaks to the health of the relationship. And so this idea that we talked about where people have talked about the notion that you introduce somebody to your parties, and this is my better half. And I've never done that, because I'm a whole. I don't intend to introduce myself like I'm half and this is the other half. No, my wholeness connects with your wholeness. And so this idea that health precedes that, I can't really be a whole being in a relationship, if I'm not healthy for me first. Often, we have to constantly come back to what health means for me. How do I make sure I'm healthy, so that I'm giving the best of me to the relationship, but not the best to me to the extent that I'm no longer good for me. I think there's an interesting balance and a delicate balance. And that's why I'm giving the best of me to the relationship so that it's healthy, but I'm doing so out of the fact that I've already kind of resourced as the best of me. So when I'm pouring, I'm pouring clean water, I'm not pouring recycled water or dirty water. I'm pouring good nourishing water because I've nourished myself first.

Dr. Amber: And that makes me think of a few things. One, I was just thinking of how I think as  black women and mothers, we tend to give, give, give, but then we don't give back to ourselves. And it just makes me think we're trying to be whole, we're trying to show up whole in these roles that we have, all the while not even stopping to take a moment to monitor how we feel. Or if we’re healthy. You can't, it's impossible to show up your whole self as mom, whole self as employee, whole self as partner. But not checking in with yourself and thinking and saying, ‘Okay, well, am I healthy?’ First, I think sometimes that part is missed. And I get it, because I think there's just so many expectations, and the bar is set high. And I think it's partly at least for me, like I said I watched the roadmap super women on my life, and it was a lot. But then also society just expects so much of us. Society expects us to be super women, and they expect us to not feel pain and expect us to just be able to pick up and go. But that's just not realistic. So that one resonates a lot. But there was something you said about monitoring health. And I was just talking to another mom right before I talked to you about her journey of wellness and just how she's had to continually evaluate it for herself. And it's just because our lives are so dynamic, you know, everything changes all the time, our children change, like rapidly, our partnerships and our spouses change, our situations change. And so at any given moment, what you need in terms of your health or your wellness might change. And you always need to be in tune and in touch with that. Or it will get missed, or you will get lost in the shuffle.

Erica St. Bernard, LCMFT. Learn more about Erica and her work at www.yourlifeswell.com

Erica: Yeah, I think of a time that I was in session with a couple where I was talking to them about the importance of walking through premarital themes and talking about the importance of physical health, emotional health and all that. And I said you have to make sure you take care of yourself. You see your doctor and you see the dentist and you do your basic stuff. And it dawned on me, when was the last time I've been to the doctor for my physical? My kid goes, I make sure my husband goes and I schedule their appointments and take my kid and remind my husband to go. And I looked at my record and it had been two years online. And I was like ‘Sis what are you doing?!’

 So I was like okay, we got to do better. So then I just got back in it. But I do think it's important, as you suggested that we remind ourselves, not in a chastising way, but in a very loving and compassionate way. Hey, sis, you got to take care of you too. You got to drink your water, you've got to get your rest, you've got to take a break you've got to do for you. All these great things you do for husband, for family, for children, for everybody else, which is on the list, make sure you're on the list, make sure you don't leave the list because that's the other thing. The list gets longer. And then we turn the page and it's like, well, I'll just take this off. I just won't work out today. And then that becomes a week of not working out and then it's a month of not working out and then our clothes feel funny. And then we're just like, Why do I feel so indecisive. You haven't done the thing for you. So it's really about checking in as you suggested. Checking in periodically and having like a Rhythm of checking in with ourselves. Because our children are going to get checked in and they're going to let us know something's going on, we're going to see that their clothes no longer fit. The shirt is tight, the shoes don't fit, that stuff is going to show. But for us, it's not always as clear. So we do have to be intentional to check in.

 Dr. Amber: Absolutely. And I'm so glad you said you notice for yourself, it had been two years because there's things like that pop up for me too. I think it's hard too as helpers, and healers and people. We know both of us feel very passionate about the work that we do. And we want to help other women, we want to help other mothers. But then we also have to realize, we’re helping these women do this thing. I need to be doing it too. And so that's something that I'm also working on. I'm glad you're working on it, too. 

Erica: This is why sisterhood is so good! Because we can remind each other like ‘Are you taking care of yourself?’. And that's helpful.

 Dr. Amber:  So you've already shared so much. You've already dropped so many gems, shared so many tips. And I want you to know, speak directly to any mama who feels like she's wanting to improve her partnership or her relationship with partners, spouse, maybe any three to five tips that you might be able to provide to her. All the while knowing that the state of motherhood right now is very interesting, the pandemic has really thrown some things at us. You know, the one way that I think about the pandemic right now is it's kind of like shone a spotlight on all the things that were not going well. And it's kind of like, well, you were making it work. But guess what, it's not going to work like this anymore. And so I think that the state of motherhood right now is kind of fragile. There's a lot going on. And there are still moms who want to work on their relationships, they want to show up, they want to prioritize the relationship, all the while not lose themselves. So what would you have to say to them?

 Erica: Sure. So first thing I wrote down is for people of faith, I am a woman who's a Christian, my faith is solid, it is one of the greatest anchors in life. And so I say, for the people that faith, to be prayerful. I really do believe God wants us to win in love. He wants us to win in life, he wants us to win as we create lasting legacies for our families. And he wants to partner with us to make those decisions and choices to slow things down to take a real look and to take an assessment of how we're doing, how our partnership is doing, how our children are doing, how we're faring in this season of pandemic and motherhood that is stressed and strained in so many ways. So it's really that space of again, slowing down, taking time to really sit with where we are. But then asking higher power, asking God to show us what we need to see to equip us and empower us with what we need to do the work we need to do. The second thing is to be honest with yourself and with your partner about what's working well. But also about what's the need of attention? Because so often, just by nature of how we are wired, we think about all that's wrong. And that's the first thing we talk to each other about. Yep, you didn't do this, you forgot to do this, how can this happen? And so really getting to this space where we can sit for a few moments and reflect on what's going well? How am I taking care of me in a way that I feel good about? How am I taking care of our partnership in a way that I feel good about? How are we showing up for the kid in ways that we feel good about? Honoring those things first and saying, Hey, we're doing a really good job with these things. 

Dr. Amber: I'm so glad you brought that up. Because I could imagine, especially now in the last few months, things just feel very tense all the time for some families and some couples, and maybe some of them are in the place where they feel like they're always nagging at each other or always criticizing, always judging. So shifting that can kind of really change the tone of things. Yes, some of us are very vocal about the things that are not going well. I know, some of us could work on that a little bit more, but I think all of us could work on being honest about what's going well, and let's talk about that.

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Erica: Yes, so starting with that, and then then talking about the things that need attention. The other thing I said is do the work. It’s work, yes, but nothing in our lives that has any value to us doesn't require work. Yeah. You didn't become Dr. Amber Thornton without work. You didn't become Cedric's wife and C3’s mom without work. You didn't become an entrepreneur without work. The podcasts haven't been successful without work. Any of the businesses or jobs we’ve had, any of the ladders we've climbed corporately and professionally or any other way, they all require a level of investment, a level of intentionality and that's what marriage requires. That's what healthy partnership requires. It does not just happen. And so you really do want to find resources. We Over Me is a great place to start. There's not a whole bunch of big words in there, I wrote it for the average person who was looking to be non-average in their love and wanting to check in and tap into the wealth and knowledge that they already have. But then also to align that with some anecdotes from that I've seen in session with clients. Again, this book is birthed from my own experience as a wife, but then also through my client work. I have worked with quite a few couples, some very seasoned- 25 years plus - and some just starting out… I think I like him, and he thinks he likes me, should we buy this ring or no?

The other thing I jotted down was to seek support. When you realize that there's an issue that you're struggling to overcome together, seek support. The research shows that we tend to wait five to seven years to seek therapy. That's a long time. So typically, what happens is by the time couples come to me, and it's been that long, one, or both of them has already kind of checked out. So at that point, it's not a futile effort. But it's hard, it feels like we're trying to push a car up a hill. And who’s going to steer this because I'm not going to push because I don't want to do all the heavy lifting by myself, youre going to have to get in here with me. Really acknowledging that when we start to see hints that we're not able to have the conversations we need to have, or that maybe we lack the skills, or maybe we lack the emotional presence to be able to stick it out, or whatever it might be, when we notice that we're in this place, and we're caught up in a cycle, seek support. Support can come in several ways. For some people, it's mentor couples. And those might be couples that are older than you in years or in years married. And those are people that you trust. So if you're a person of faith, you want to be prayerful about those people because you don't want to share your business with everybody. I’m going to say that one more time, do not share your marital business with everybody. Now are there other seasoned couples in your life? Again, they could be older in age or they could be just older, more senior in terms of years married, those people can often be a great resource for us. We can ask them ‘Hey, tell me about the earlier part of your marriage, the earlier years around the time when you first had kids, how did you navigate work? You don't even have to go into the nitty gritty of your life story, but you can ask them to share bits and pieces of theirs. And many of them are willing to do that because they know that this is how we win at love. 

In addition to the mentor couples, you can also talk about accountability couples. And those might be more peer relationships, right? There are people that are also married, maybe in your crew, your tribe, your circle, you might talk to them and say, ‘Hey, when something like this happens, how do you handle it?’ And maybe again, you won't go into the details specifically. But have you ever faced something like this and maybe loosely talking about a thing might be helpful in terms of sharing notes and comparing or not just comparing for comparison sake, but gaining some insight about what might be helpful things that maybe you have not thought of. Or you know, just a shift and thinking like, Oh, I hadn't considered that. So maybe that's a way that I might approach it. And then certainly couples therapy can always be a great resource. And those I have clients that I meet with pretty regularly and then others who were on like a maintenance kind of visit. Similar to our cars, they come in every few every 3000 miles or so. And we touch base with some of them quarterly. And some of them have been with me from the premarital season to getting married, and others have met me well into their marriage and they're just using therapy as a resource to help them navigate and troubleshoot when they reach an impasse or a fork in the road. And you're trying to figure out how to stay together on the same road to get to the ultimate destination.

 I have one more for partnerships, and it’s to take breaks. I mean, ideally, we would take vacations, but we know that's not really a thing right now. But if we can do a staycation, if we can get somebody to keep the baby overnight, or if we can hire some help to come into the house that takes care of the baby if we're not quite ready to send baby anywhere, figuring out ways to prioritize time with your partner, time with yourself. Because those things are essential to the quality of our lives. They're essential to the quality of our well-being and that directly impacts our lives. If we're not tended to, it shows up. We're snappy. We're attitude. We’re slamming doors and they’re just like… ‘something's going on.’ And they say how are you fine If you don't seem fine. So really checking in with yourself, going for a little drive, maybe you can't go far, but going for a little drive, maybe taking the scenic route to wherever you would generally go. Finding ways to take those breaks. Listening to a podcast, running a bubble bath, whatever is your thing, giving that to yourself, doing those small things to take breaks for you. So that when it is time to show up in the fullness of life and the fullness of Mom, you can do so again from a place that has been restored and refreshed and nurtured.

Dr. Amber: Yes! And again, thank you so much, because it really helps me to think about this differently. There was something that you said about mentor couples or accountability couples, and I’m like, wow, we do this in empower wellness program and balance working moms with motherhood. But I have never even considered to do something like that, even in my own personal life, when it comes to my relationship or my partnership. And I just think, you know, it's helpful to hear that because it gets us to think about how to make time and space for our relationships and ourselves at the same times, and how to do that in in ways that feel sustainable and feel good. But also, when you were saying do the work, I love that. One thing in my head that I kept saying is allow the work to take the time it needs. I think that's something that comes up a lot in the work with moms. We have these visions of how we want things to be, and we want them now. We probably feel that way about our partnerships too, like I imagine, you probably have couples who show up after way too long. And they're like, I need this to be fixed today. And you explain to them that we're going to do the work, but the work is going to take some time. So really being patient and being consistent and allowing the work to just take the time it requires. 

Erica: I liken it to like a gym analogy or any other kind of put in the work and don't do not see the return immediately. You don't invest in the stock market today and see an increase tomorrow. You really can't come to therapy and expect that this 190 or 15 minute investment of time is going to be revolutionary for your marriage. Most of the time, not the case. And so as you suggested doing the work, but then I tell clients to trust the process, that the work we're doing today is sowing seeds, and those seeds will grow and you'll start to see the fruits of your labor, you'll start to see things start to change, communication improve, more grounded, more connected, all those things can happen. But it does take some time. And so really think about, you know, you go to the gym and you work out, you're not going to have abs today. But if you keep at it, you will make it there. This idea of keeping at it and knowing that your labor is not in vain, knowing that it will come to pass if you continue to hope. And the goal too is that you have a partner who's willing to invest with you in the process. I think that's another piece of this that we have to be honest about. Sometimes couples, again, come and one of them has already checked out. I think that's where the checking in with each other is so important. So that if your partner starts to burn out if that's the case, you can find a sense that you can see that when you're attuned to each other. But if you're so disconnected, you might be missing that they're no longer reaching as much as they used to that they're no longer as attentive as they used to be itself checking in is super important. 

You can find Erica’s book We Over Me; Principles for Marital Partnership on her website at www.yourlifeswell.com. Also, if you're a Kindle person, it's available on Amazon only via kindle. Make sure you also give her a follow on all social media handles @yourlifeswell.

Hi there! I’m Dr. Amber Thornton.

I’m a Clinical Psychologist, Motherhood Wellness Consultant, wife, and mama to 2 amazing little ones.

My mission is simple: to help working mothers balance work, motherhood, and wellness. I want to completely change the narrative of what is possible for working mothers.

Learn more about how we can work together!